A recent study published in the journal Science found the number of birds in North America is plummeting. The bird population dropped by more than a quarter over the past 50 years. Grassland birds, shore birds and songbirds are all affected. WPSU's Anne Danahy spoke with Greg Grove, editor of Pennsylvania Birds, and Doug Wentzel, president of the State College Bird Club, about bird watching and those trends.
Here's that conversation:
Anne Danahy:
Welcome to Take Note on WPSU. I'm Anne Danahy. A recent study published in the journal Science found the number of birds in North America plummeting. The bird population dropped by more than a quarter over the past 50 years. Grassland birds, shorebirds, and songbirds are all affected. Joining us to talk about the state of birds in Pennsylvania and what can be done to reverse the trend, are Greg Grove, editor of Pennsylvania Birds and Doug Wentzel, president of the State College Bird Club. Greg Grove is a retired Penn State researcher. He's a past president of the State College Bird Club and the Pennsylvania Society for Ornithology and he's been recognized for his contributions to bird life in Pennsylvania. His projects include starting a winter rapter survey in 2001 and the Stone Mountain Halk Watch. He co-wrote Birds of Central Pennsylvania. Doug Wentzel is program director at the Shaver's Creek Environmental Center. He coordinates birding programs there and is an instructor for classes including Principles of Environmental Interpretation.
He also co-leads the Auduban Society’s Coastal Maine Bird Studies for Teens Week in Maine. Greg Grove and Doug Wenzel. Thank you both for coming in to talk with us.
Greg Grove and Doug Wentzel:
Thanks. Pleasure to be here.
Anne Danahy:
There was a big bird study published in science and it came from researchers at Cornell lab of ornithology among other organizations. And it uses this mass quantity of data collected by everyday birders over time. If this is something that happens a lot with birding and happens every year with the citizen scientists collecting the data. What do you think, Greg, makes these efforts so successful? How are you able to get so many everyday people to go out and collect all this data?
Greg Grove:
Well, I think for a lot of birders it's first great just seeing and finding birds, but a lot of burners also like to have some extra meaning to what they're doing. And that includes counting the birds to have something they can put on paper or in a computer, a spreadsheet, uh, and especially if they can do it from year to year and start repeating, uh, the numbers and seeing what happens. Uh, and there are, uh, any number of different citizen science projects that allow that to happen, uh, including the big one that the study is largely based on, which, uh, involves something called breeding bird surveys, which have been going on for about 50 years and involve something like 3000 surveys across the us and Canada every June, uh, to get account of some sort on, uh, the adult breeding birds that we have.
Anne Danahy:
And how do you know the accuracy of those studies?
Greg Grove:
The statistical people tell us that they can sort out, uh, how different individuals record birds. Everybody's a little bit different in terms of what they can hear. Uh, the, the big strength of the study is that you're not depending on results from just one person. You're depending on a whole collection of data, which kind of smooths out the, the, the picture, so to speak. 3000 people each sampling 50 point counts. That's a heck of a large number of counts or numbers to, in order to come up with some pretty good statistical rigor.
Anne Danahy:
Right. And this is something that you've done right?
Greg Grove:
Yes.
Anne Danahy:
And you go out, you have your, your segment and the law of Pennsylvania or whichever state you're in and you're going to go out and try to count the birds, right?
Greg Grove:
Yeah. It involves, uh, specifically a 25 mile route where we stop every half mile and for three minutes we listen to the bird songs mainly and record that. Uh, so it's mainly a hearing thing actually, but it was started back in the 1960s by a scientist in Maryland and it wasn't long before at branched out a whole across the whole country and it's still going strong. And Doug, is this something that you've done as well?
Doug Wentzel:
I have gone along for a breeding bird survey. I don't have my own survey because my own count route, um, because there's sought after people who love birds, you know, it's a, it's a badge of honor to have a, a breeding bird survey route.
Anne Danahy:
And so you said, uh, Greg, that is mostly you're listening for the birth. So that means you have to know which birds make different types of sounds, right?
Greg Grove:
Yes. At that time of the year, which is basically June, uh, the song birds are singing obviously, which they don't do all year. They make other kinds of noises, but there's territorial songs are mainly may, June, maybe into July and, and so yes, you, you really can't do a BBS as we call them, breeding bird survey without knowing most of the local bird songs in your area.
Anne Danahy:
And so going out there and just going out and listening, going out into the woods, how long does it take?
Greg Grove:
Oh, well it's a, usually we started a half hour before sunrise, uh, because the early bird gets the warm, I guess you might say. Uh, and so usually to do 50 points every half mile, it takes about four hours.
Anne Danahy:
Okay. All right. So pretty reasonable. So all of this data has been used to come out with the most recent study that, that we talked about. And it does paint a pretty grim picture for birds. It found, the study found that their numbers have dropped by nearly a third since 1970. We're talking about approximately 3 billion birds. And then there was another report not long after this, and this was from the Audubon society and it says that two thirds of birds in North America are at risk due to climate change. So we're hearing these two national studies, North American studies. What are you seeing here in central Pennsylvania? We'll start with you, Greg.
Greg Grove:
I think that a lot of the forest birds that we have here right here are, are relatively stable. They may decreasing a little bit, but we're lucky in our part of the state that we still have relatively less development and loss of forest land. Of course, a century ago, the forest were all gone. So in that sense, things are probably better for now…
Anne Danahy:
From the logging industry.
Greg Grove:
Yes, exactly. Yes. Uh, you already mentioned, I think that the grassland birds on the other hand are the, the group where we see the biggest, uh, decrease and that means, uh, and that, and that is basically correct. The sparrows and meadowlarks and so on, uh, of farm land that may have been abundant 40 or 50 years ago. I've definitely shrunk probably largely because of changes in farming practices to a large extent, I would say. Yeah.
Anne Danahy:
Doug, is that something that you've noticed in your observations when you're, when you're out and looking at birds, can you tell the difference?
Doug Wentzel:
As Greg said, I mean, in the, in our area of Pennsylvania, the birds are, are fairly stable. So I don't know if I would have records to suggest that I see fewer blue Jays, but on a national perspective, you know, the one way to look at it is that, uh, 50 years ago you would've seen four blue Jays. Now you see three blue Jays, uh, 50 years ago you would've seen three Baltimore Orioles, uh, or four. Now you only see, you know, one less so. So it's interesting to look at it that way. There's just fewer birds around. And I think maybe the, uh, looking ahead to migration coming up in spring, you know, um, maybe if we looked at our bird surveys from just my backyard from, uh, spring 25 years ago, cause I have records, I could look at that and say, maybe, uh, maybe there really are fewer birds. I haven't looked at it cause the report's still relatively new, but I wonder, and I think burgers, people who were birding 50 years ago definitely say that there are fewer birds now than there were, uh, that long ago.
Anne Danahy:
And certain types of birds that maybe were more common 25 or 50 years ago. And I know I've read about like grosbeaks for example, and that's not something that you see every day.
Greg Grove:
Yeah. The evening grosbeak was probably what you're referring to. That's a, that's one of the most drastic declines of all. That's a complicated one because it's all, it involves population explosions during certain insect outbreaks in Canada, perhaps, uh, as extreme as any other species I can, I can think of. Uh, so that's kind of a, a tricky one. And, and maybe even an atypical, uh, example, uh, of things that are declining. Uh, but amongst the, uh, some of the grasslands, sparrows and meadowlarks, uh, they're down 80% according to breeding bird surveys. Another one of the really severe declines as is the case with certain of the, the grassland sparrows
Anne Danahy:
For people who aren't birders, why does this matter? Why is it important? So you just say, okay, well we still have a lot of birds. It's still seems okay to me. Greg?
Greg Grove:
Most people have heard of the famous Canary in the coal mine, uh, as an indication of something bad happening there. And I think birds are because of being so conspicuous and easy to observe, they are definitely an indicator of the health of the environment. And in the same way that a trout might be the indicator of the health of a stream, if the birds are there and doing well, then we can be confident that that particular area environmentally is perhaps doing, doing well. Although that can be affected by factors of 2000 miles away on their winter grounds and that sort of thing. But nevertheless, they are simply a, we can simply judge, uh, our health, our environmental health, uh, by watching these trends over over years to see what's happening. And while there are some birds that are increasing, uh, the majority are at best staying stable or decreasing.
Anne Danahy:
So the study wasn't about why this is happening so much, but it does point to several possible causes and including loss of habitat, which we mentioned changes in temperature. So climate change, buildings, growth, pesticides and outdoor cats. For people who are wondering how much they can control that or what they can do about it, Doug, what would you tell them?
Doug Wentzel:
Yeah, there's, there's so much to choose from, right? You just made a list of, you know, so if you believe in, we should use less pesticides, then if that's an issue that's of interest to you, then do some more research and really do away with herbicides and pesticides in your backyard. Be an advocate of that. If you are someone who believes that, you know, wildlife is important and cats certainly have a detrimental effect, they kill song birds and mammals. Um, if that's an issue for you, then be an advocate of cats inside. But I think the number one thing to do is just become aware of birds. I mean, birds are ambassadors for the natural world. I'm sure I speak for Greg too. Not a day goes by that we don't, you know, just enjoy birds. It's a, it gives us an excuse to get outside again. Um, every day you know, you're, you're out a Crow flies by, you just say there's a Crow. I mean, it's just, you feel this connection to the natural world, this joy. So for me it's first, you know, if you don't know about birds, well here's an opportunity to learn about birds. Birds are just, they enrich your life.
Anne Danahy:
And they can be really fascinating. So we were talking a little while ago before the interview about owls and I've been hearing great horned owls in my yard. And, and Greg, you were saying, so now that is the time when they're actually starting to nest this early in the winter as part of what makes birds so fascinating that there's just, there's just so varied and different.
Greg Grove:
I think, uh, one of the most fascinating parts for me, I think Doug would agree, especially living here in Pennsylvania where we have generally four seasons of the year, although they get mixed up a lot. But watching that seasonal change that takes place, the nesting season, the, the summer when there, when the bird population explodes, after the babies are born, then the migration and the fall and the winter, some birds come down from the North. Watching that progression season in season out year end year out is one of the most fulfilling parts for me. When did you both become birders? For me, it started in graduate school when Columbus, Ohio around 1980. And was there anything in particular that led to it that you just happened upon? It I, well, I like a lot of people where I grew up, I was, grew up as a Hunter, uh, as a teenager. But then I began to realize that looking for birds was almost the same thing as hunting, except you could do it all year. And there were so many more things to find. And I had an old pair of binoculars and I went out to a park and started to look around.
Anne Danahy:
I didn't have to get up at four in the morning to do it, maybe. Doug, when did you become a birder?
Doug Wentzel:
And I became a birder when my neighbors started feeding birds. I grew up in Redding, so a little postage stamp backyard. I recall my neighbor feeding what probably were house sparrows and house benches. And I just was aware of birds. I had no mentor to really say, Hey Doug, that's a house Sparrow and here's a resource that you could learn. So I didn't have that, but, but birds and nature have always been hinting at me since I was a kid. And then when I came to Penn state and pursued a degree in wildlife and fishery science, that's when I had mentors who were able to say, this is how you learn about birds and this is bird song and this is the function and this is so it became more a ecological approach. And then there's people like Greg Grove who gets you to do a survey of, you know, Christmas bird count, or you should do a, you know, a survey of birds at Shaver's Creek. And so it takes mentors too. So I've always been a birder, but I didn't have mentors. And, uh, now it's so easy. There's so many mentors out there and so many resources, there's really no excuse not to become a birder. Anne, I'm looking at you.
Anne Danahy:
I'm a novice birder. I think we could, we could say so. They can do some really amazing things. There's always the, um, the stories of hummingbirds flying over the Gulf of Mexico. Are there any favorite birds or bird activities that the two of you have? Doug?
Doug Wentzel:
I love gardening too. So as a kid I always played in the soil and love to grow things. So when you combine birding with gardening, now we're really talking backyard fun. So you can, hummingbirds are wonderful birds. We invite into your backyard with a few native plants. So going back to that list of things that you can do, if you love plants, you really do need to focus on adding native plants to your backyard. Cause that's an easy thing for people to do. Whether it's trees, shrubs, uh, annuals, herbaceous perennials, you know, birding and gardening go hand in hand. So, and hummingbirds are very accessible birds. So if you, if you are just curious about birds and want to get started learning the correct way to put up a hummingbird feeder, how to care for it, how to add plants that hummingbirds love in your backyard I think is a great gateway bird into a lifetime obsession.
Anne Danahy:
And, Greg, how about you? Any favorite things or his particular interest?
Greg Grove:
A couple of just come to mind very quickly. Uh, being out early on a June morning when birds are singing everywhere and if you know the songs, it's just like you can identify old friends all, all around you. You can stay in that one spot and hear 15 different kinds of birds singing. So that's certainly a highlight of the year for sure. The other thing which, which Doug also is involved in is our fall hawk watch. Well, we have a spring and a fall hawk watch, and that's a spectacle that few people appreciate. You can stand on top of a mountain here locally and on a good day you could see a couple of hundred hawks go by. More than you might see in a lifetime for some species.
Anne Danahy:
That's wild. So where are they going or why are there so many?
Greg Grove:
They're migrating and they're using, they're using the ridges because of the wind patterns. They can use the updrafts of wind deflecting off the ridges and so they concentrate along the ridges, uh, which is why we stand up there rather than out in the middle of Nittany Valley or whatever.
Anne Danahy:
If you're just joining us, this is Take Note on WPSU. I'm Anne Danahy We're talking with Greg Grove, editor of Pennsylvania birds and Doug Wentzel, president of the state college bird club. A recent study found that the bird population in the United States and Canada has dropped by nearly 3 billion birds over the past 50 years. This month in Pennsylvania, we've been seeing unusually warm weather. How does that affect the birds in particular, the migratory birds and we were talking about earlier, they don't usually come back right until the spring. Is that right, Greg?
Greg Grove:
Right. Uh, it's, it's hard to know how that's going to affect, certainly in recent years we, we hear more, uh, records of certain birds showing up weeks or even a month before they're supposed to. Is that because of warm weather? Perhaps. It could also be because there are so many more birdwatchers out there reporting as well. The other concern, another concern is that many of these birds time, their arrival back to, uh, coincide with say the beginning of insect hatches and that sort of thing. And if climate change is really kind of starting to mess up the timing of that, then that could be out of sync, which could cause trouble for birds. And, and there's no question that there's concern among the entomologists for insect populations and most of the songbirds that we have here in the summertime depend upon insects to feed their young for a protein, that sort of thing. Things like whippoorwills even, which are declining quite severely in many places, depend on flying insects at night. And those things seem to be decreasing.
Anne Danahy:
So is that something that would the bird count will help with you kind of keeping an eye on this over time and seeing if there are significant shifts and changes?
Greg Grove:
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean there, we talked about breeding bird surveys. There's also something called a a a night jar or a whippoorwill survey that you can go out at nighttime and make counts of in a systematic way so that you can compare it over over, over years. And we do that in a Rothrock State Forest here locally, for example.
Anne Danahy:
We've been talking a lot about some of the bird losses, but there's also a few success stories. So waterfowl like ducks making a comeback, raptors. So the, the bald eagle watch. And one reason that's often given for that is that you have different interest groups coming together, working together on this. Do you think that that's something Doug, that can be replicated with birds, different groups coming together and successfully finding ways to help those populations come back?
Doug Wentzel:
I think so. I mean, I think it's nice to have advocates and when people pull their polar voices together they can be heard louder. And you know, the key to bird conservation is habitat. So, Greg mentioned, you know, in central PA we have, you know, Rothrock State Forest, which is a hundred thousand acres of forested land. And so birds that are depend on acres of forests like uh, Scarlet tanagers or Rosebreasted grosbeaks or red eyed vireos. They appreciate that huge tracks of forested land. So if you're a friend of Rothrock State Forest, that the forest is a huge, plays an important role for bird conservation. So whenever people are concerned about birds and conserving bird habitat, I think that's effective. So ducks unlimited, certainly, you know, their work in everything from bird boxes for wood ducks to just conserving places where birds can rest and migration and breed. So that's really important.
Greg Grove:
If I may add in the case of the Raptors there, there's two, two main factors. One is, uh, it's no longer legal to shoot hawks as it was, uh, throughout most of the history of this country. Uh, even even a famous place like Hawk Mountain where, which is probably the most famous birdwatching spot in the world. It started out as a place where the local farmers went to shoot hawks, chicken hawks as they call them, for the most part, that became illegal gradually and we don't do that anymore. So that helped restore hawk populations. Plus the banning of the use of DDT, which was a very specific, uh, problem for certain kinds of birds like bald eagles and osprey and so on. So, raptors have actually bounced back very nicely, although there are still concerns with pesticides and, and places in the world such as the Mediterranean where hawk shooting is still a major activity actually. Uh, but they are, they are an exception to the example of the, uh, uh, 3 billion bird loss that we've been talking about.
Anne Danahy:
And isn't lead in hunting bullets… Isn't that an issue for some birds especially?
Greg Grove:
Absolutely. Uh, bald eagles that are brought in that are found that are found ill or apparently injured, brought into rehabilitation centers are often found to have ingested a led bullet from a deer. Perhaps that was shot but not recovered by the Hunter. So are there options for that so people could use a non yes, yes. There, there are other uh, options and there is, there is definitely, there are campaigns to encourage hunters to use non-lead ammunition. I don't think the majority have switched yet, but it's one of those things that slowly creeping into the consciousness I think of of people who are not just hunters, but also conservationists in general.
Anne Danahy:
The Trump administration has announced changes to regulations that it's looking at pushing forward on several fronts and they could affect wildlife. And that includes the, um, migratory bird treaty act enforcement and the efforts to essentially weaken that and it would get rid of certain regulations that penalize companies if the actions that they take and up jeopardizing bird populations. And so there's a big concern about that and the impact that that could have or is, is that a concern? Doug, you're nodding.
Doug Wentzel:
Sure. I mean, going back to the idea of, I think you, you take action about what you're passionate about. So listeners out there who are really concerned about, uh, politics in this country and how reform to the migratory bird treaty act, if it negatively impacts birds, which the changes do then if you love birds, you're going to take an interest in talking to representatives and thinking about conservation when it's, um, when it comes time to make a decision on who you're gonna vote for. For me, the conservation platforms of politicians are really important. So, um, I would be opposed to changes that undermine bird protection because I care about birds and I love birds. So yeah, I'm going to fight for that.
Anne Danahy:
This interview is scheduled to air on Valentine's Day and the Sunday after Valentine's Day. And that will also be the first day of the 23rd Annual Great Backyard Bird Count. Last year I think I read that there were more than 160,000 participants submitting observations. So how does this work, Doug? Give us an idea. Can anyone participate?
Doug Wentzel:
Sure can, Anne. And it’s really about becoming aware of the other earthlings that inhabit this planet with us. So it's very accessible. So you first go to the website, great backyard bird count, and you can read up on how to submit a checklist. And there are, you know, we live in the age of information, so there's lots of information online about how to become a birdwatcher or you could join a local bird club an Audubon Society, a naturalist club. There are definitely people out there who love birds and could help you get started, but it's all there on the website so you can just go out in your backyard. You have four days to submit a checklist to become part of this national count. And really international count. Pennsylvania finishes usually in the top five as the most checklists of any of the States. So if you're proud of Pennsylvania, I am, you know, I'm going to bird a little bit extra harder this year so I can submit a checklist a day. I could submit, if I go to the park and I see a crow, I could submit a checklist that says I spent five minutes looking for birds and I found one crow, two blue jays and a mourning dove. And this time of year, there's not as many birds that you need to worry about. Like is it a yellow warbler? No, because there's yellow warblers aren't here yet. So there's fewer birds to choose from. And the checklist that is provided, uh, there's just fewer birds on it. So if you can identify a crow, a mallard, give it a shot. But you can also just read about it and get excited and, say to yourself, if I can't do it this year, I'm gonna work towards doing it maybe next year. But you don't need the great backyard bird count if you're already a birder. Get someone else to go with you. If you're intimidated by the great backyard bird count, then just make it a habit to just observe birds. And before you know it, it'll be on your calendar next year.
Anne Danahy:
Why is it done right now? And not when there are all the different types of birds around, maybe in June?
Doug Wentzel:
I think not to overwhelm people just to get families and it's February and it's a good time. You know, there's so many other bird counts other times of the year.
Greg Grove:
I think it also in the winter, uh, bird feeders in the backyard is another great gateway into birding because you can sit there and look out your window and you have a fairly small number of birds to learn to identify. And I think that's a way to ease in, uh, start with the common easy birds. And I think that's why it was a winter activity. Bird feeding in particular makes it easy to see birds without doing, you know, traipsing around the woods for too long or whatever.
Anne Danahy:
Right, right. Greg, do you have a favorite bird?
Greg Grove:
Uh, uh, you would probably get a different answer. 365 days of the year. I S I suppose that our Hawk watch, we, we focus a lot on golden Eagles. So I'll pick that one. That's a pretty spectacular one, admittedly. And a lot of other birders might pick the same.
Anne Danahy:
And, Doug, how about you, one of your favorite birds.
Doug Wentzel:
Thanks for clarifying. Yeah. Uh, you know, I think black cap chickadees just fascinate me. There's such, uh, just amazing birds and they have a beautiful song.
Anne Danahy:
They're very friendly and not shy at all, right?
Doug Wentzel:
No, they're not. Uh, and they readily come to backyards. So they, they appreciate native trees and native shrubs and they also appreciate black oil, sunflower seeds. So that's their bird that, that are pretty stable in the center region. If you put up a bird feeder with black oil sunflower seed, you will probably get a black cap chickadee.
Greg Grove:
Yeah. And with patience, uh, there are plenty of people who have gotten them to eat literally out of their hand.
Anne Danahy:
Birders can have a reputation and not necessarily fair of being weird. And there was even a recent study, and I'm using air quotes and it was a few years ago and it was about bird birders being weird. Where do you think that reputation comes from? Why does that still hang on?
Greg Grove:
I don't think they're terribly weird, but I, I guess walking around with binoculars might seem strange to some people. Of course there was the old stereotype of the Jane Hathaway birdwatcher, the character from the Beverly Hillbillies. And I think that there was a, a time when birders were far fewer and a time when there was much less awareness of, of the natural world, especially birds outside of hunting of course. And so I think just the rarity of seeing people with binoculars walking around maybe, maybe cause the stereotype to begin. I guess if going out at five o'clock in the morning to look for birds is weird, then okay, maybe it's a little bit weird, but I don't, I don't really think of it that way. There are so many people burning nowadays. It's if that stereotype ever really applied, I think it's fading.
Anne Danahy:
Well, Greg Grove and Doug Wentzel, thank you both so much for coming in to talk with us.
Greg Grove is editor of Pennsylvania birds and past president of the State College Bird Club and the Pennsylvania Society for Ornithology. Doug Wentzel is program director at the Shaver's Creek Environmental Center. To listen to this and other episodes of Take Note, go to wpsu.org/takenote. I'm Anne Danahy, WPSU.
