On Friday at 7 p.m., Native American author Tommy Orange will visit the State Theatre in State College to talk about his Pulitzer Prize finalist novel “There There.”
In the book, one character gathers oral history interviews. WPSU used some of that character’s questions, and some of our own, to talk with Native Americans living in Central Pennsylvania.
In this interview, WPSU’s Emily Reddy talked with John Sanchez, who’s lived in State College for about 27 years. He’s a professor emeritus in Penn State’s Donald P. Bellisario College of Communications and co-founder of the Penn State Powwow.
Emily Reddy
What's your name and your tribe?
John Sanchez
My name is John Sanchez, and my tribal background is Yaqui and Apache – "Nde," is what we say.
Emily Reddy
What are the places that you have lived?
John Sanchez
You know, Emily, I’ve lived all over the country, you know. I’ve lived in Arizona. I’ve lived in Oklahoma. I’ve lived in Kansas and South Dakota. I lived in DC. I lived in Ohio. And then here. So I've been around quite a bit. But I'm a really old man, so it's okay.
Emily Reddy
Can you think of a story to tell, something that's happened to you in central Pennsylvania that might give a picture of what it's like to be a Native person here?
John Sanchez
It's difficult to be Native here, you know. My grandfather, Asa, used to say this all the time, you know. “It's hard to be Indian,” and it really is. When I walk into the room, I mean, you would look at me and go, “where is this guy from?” And people would actually ask me that all the time, which it becomes irritating after a while. And my boys, they went to school here in State College High. They grew up here from the time they were 5 years old and up. And these boys, as soon as they walked in the room you knew they weren't Irish. You know, they're real long, dark haired. They're not as dark as skinned as I am, but they're darker skinned. You wonder who they are. And their names are not like Bob and Joe. They have more Native names. And they had a hard time. They had a really hard time going to school here in State College.
Emily Reddy
Is it easier to be Native when there are more Native people around?
John Sanchez
Oh, yeah. I've lectured all over the country, literally everywhere you can think of and several countries. And when I walk into a room, you know, I walk over to the person that looks indigenous or Native, or I'd walk over to a person who I knew purposely was Black. Why? Because we're going to have shared experiences. And now today, I walk over to people who are LGBTQA. Why? Because, no, I don't know what it's like to be gay, but I do know about discrimination, you know. So, we have something in common right there from the beginning. But then I always do, you know, extend my hand in friendship. I try to be humble about everything that I do. And I let you talk rather than me until I find out if it's a safe area or not.
Emily Reddy
What does being Indian mean to you?
John Sanchez
Boy, that's a really good question. You know, because my relatives that live on the reserve, they have a different experience than what I have living off the reserve. My cousin, my cousin, recently passed. And he and I were really, really close when we were kids. But I didn't see him all the time because we'd lived… I'm an urban Indian. I lived off the reservation, and he lived on the reservation. So we would go visit, of course, you know, we're going to go visit. And so we would visit, you know. And, right away, he'd be telling me, “Hey, so look, what's it like out there? You know, what's it like living with all these Caucasian people, you know? What's it like?” And I would tell him, you know. And he would be envious of all the places and I would go. And I'd be envious of all the traditions and all the language and all the ceremonies that he would know. You know, so we taught each other, but I always felt like I was getting the better end of the deal. And we brought some of those ceremonies to town, to here in State College. One of them is we have a welcoming ceremony when a newborn is here. And we welcome that little, that little newborn, into the into the nation you know, into the tribe, into our hearts, and us into his. And that connection stays with you forever. And I would tell these boys, you know, or my nieces, here are the first words ever said to you, 31 years ago. And they, they like to hear it, you know, they like to know that I've been there for them, and I have been since they were born.
Emily Reddy
What do you say? Is there something you say to all of them?
John Sanchez
No, I can't tell you.
Emily Reddy
Oh!
John Sanchez
It’s very, it's very personal. You know, a very personal thing. But… and I think what I say kind of was like what my what my mother used to say. You know, I used to listen to her, you know, when she would be in these ceremonies, and my father. And they would say about the same thing. Most of my nephews have already been through welcoming ceremonies, and they say similar things, you know, similar things. So, we feel like that part of the tradition will keep going, you know, keep going and going and going.
Emily Reddy
Do you feel “Native pride” connected to your Native heritage?
John Sanchez
Every day. Every day. Every day. I can't even explain it to you. Um, I don't wear it on my shoulder, you know. I don't walk in say, “Hey, I'm Native, you know, get out of my way.” No, I would never do that. I wait for people to ask. But am I proud? When I was a kid, I used to ask God – why did he make me an Indian? It was so hard growing up like that. Really hard. We didn't fit in when we were kids, and, you know, and I thought God punished me by making me this color, making me have long hair, you know, making me speak in different language, you know, than English. English is my second language. And so, I wondered why he did that to me. And now, I'm so proud. I'm so happy that God made me the way I am. You know, but that pride came a long, long time ago. Long time ago. Long, long time ago, when I was just still a boy. And one of the things that helped me with that is that my grandmother told me, you know – because she could see that people would talk about Native people, about Indians in a bad way – when we’d get on a city bus, you know, to go to the doctor, she would take me. And I would walk with my head down. And she goes, “Grandson, don't ever feel bad about people calling you names and doing things like that to you.” I go, “But Grandma,” I said, “I can't take it all the time, you know. And the kids at school and everybody's…” you know. And I went to school right after Brown vs. Topeka School Board. So, schools were still pretty much Caucasian when I went, and we were different. And I said, “But grandma…” she goes, “No, don't ever feel ashamed of who you are. You are the new face. You're the new faces of an ancient people.” And I never forgot that. And then when we started this powwow 19 years ago, that's what it was called, “The New Faces of an Ancient People.”
Emily Reddy
Thank you so much for talking with me.
John Sanchez
Thanks for the invite. I really appreciate that.
