Penn State faculty recently voted overwhelmingly in favor of unionizing. Paul Clark, a professor of labor and employment relations at Penn State, has worked with unions in Pennsylvania and around the country for more than 40 years. WPSU’s Anne Danahy spoke with Clark about the significance of the union vote at Penn State and how it fits in with what’s happening nationally.
Here is their conversation.
Anne Danahy
Paul Clark, thank you so much for talking with us.
Paul Clark
You're welcome.
Anne Danahy
There have been discussions among Penn State faculty about unionizing over the years, including efforts in the 1970s, but that obviously did not happen until now. This vote was not even close, 75% for unionizing. What do you think changed?
Paul Clark
Well, we clearly are in an environment where higher education is in transition. There's a lot of concerns about the changes that are going to be happening at universities. And I think that really drove the vote. Among other issues, we started to see the beginning of these significant changes just a year ago when campuses were closed by Penn State. And I think that was sort of a wake-up call to faculty that it's not going to be business as usual in the future. And faculty want to have a voice, have some input into the changes that are coming. And I think that's why a lot of faculty saw this as a really good opportunity.
Anne Danahy
The university is closing seven of the Commonwealth campuses. It says it was necessary because of enrollment shifts and patterns coming up. But you mentioned other universities too. What are some of the issues that are cropping up at other universities that we're seeing here?
Paul Clark
Well, at the extreme end universities are closing, particularly smaller colleges. Now that's not something that Penn State's going to face, but it does illustrate the sort of precarious nature of higher education right now. But we also see it at universities like Penn State around the country, issues about academic freedom for one, departments being closed, faculty being monitored in terms of what they can teach about and what they can't. That raises issues about the future. We also see cuts in programs. We see layoffs. So these are all things that are on the minds of your average faculty member here at Penn State.
Anne Danahy
The faculty union will include tenured faculty, non-tenured faculty, full-time, part-time, University Park, and the Commonwealth campuses. So a lot of moving parts there. How have contract negotiations and union negotiations at other big universities played out in terms of salary and benefits and working conditions?
Paul Clark
Well, generally across the board, unions negotiate higher salaries, better benefits and better working conditions. If unions aren't able to do that, then really what's the purpose? So generally you see a positive impact on those kind of issues. I think that's what faculty here are hoping for. In another way, though, I think it's important to look at where that impact's going to be most significant. And younger faculty, faculty in the teaching professor rank, adjuncts and part-timers, they're the ones that over the years have really been bearing the brunt of cost cutting. So I'm sure that's going to be a priority for the new union.
Anne Danahy
So you've mentioned that faculty want a greater voice in how the university is governed and operated. Why is that such a key concern?
Paul Clark
I've been here a long time and I've seen administration after administration come through. And the single common characteristic of university administration here at Penn State is that it's largely centralized and top-down. And over the years, for that reason, the university administration has made decisions that have turned out to be detrimental to faculty, not particularly well thought out and well informed. And faculty think that the university's decisions would be significantly better if they had a greater voice. And I can give you a quick example. The university made decisions during COVID that a lot of faculty thought were not well informed and to some degree put faculty at risk. Yes, they had committees that had some faculty on them, but most faculty don't think that the university really listened or asked for the faculty's input. As an example, Rutgers University has had a faculty union for years and years and years. And at Rutgers, virtually every decision about COVID was made with faculty at the table. That wasn't the case at Penn State. I think university faculty think that they have a lot to offer. They're committed to the university and they think that their voice can make Penn State a better institution.
Anne Danahy
How would you respond to the argument that even if the faculty is unionized, that the contract negotiations are going to cover the wages, the benefits and the working conditions, but that doesn't necessarily force the administration to involve the faculty more in those types of decisions.
Paul Clark
No, it doesn't. And the university administration really has a decision to make. Traditionally in the private sector, the relationship between unions and employers is adversarial. That's in part because the goals of employees and employers come into conflict. Employers want to make as much money as possible. Employees want to get paid as much as possible. And those two goals come into direct conflict. In the public sector, in education and health care, missions are much more aligned to a certain degree. People don't come to work in higher education because they think they're going to become wealthy. They're invested in what the university does. So the university faculty and the administration have a lot in common. They both want Penn State to be the best university possible. If the university chooses to not let faculty have input in decisions beyond the very basic salary, benefits and working conditions, if they want an adversarial relationship with us, I think that's a big mistake. I would very much encourage them to look at this as a partnership and to involve faculty beyond just the basic legally required issues and make faculty members a full partner in decisions right across the board. With good faith, the university and the faculty together can make this a better university.
