Between 6,000 and 10,000 churches close every year in the United States, according to the Pew Research Center. This leaves many communities with empty or abandoned church buildings. WPSU’s Jessie Beers-Altman talked with Bob Jaeger, the president of the Philadelphia-based Partners for Sacred Places, about their work trying to keep churches open and -- when they do close -- helping communities find new uses for church buildings.
For more stories of historic buildings in central Pennsylvania finding new uses, watch the "Old Places, New Spaces" episodeof WPSU television’s “Keystone Stories.”
Here’s their conversation:
JESSIE BEERS-ALTMAN
Bob Yeager, thanks so much for talking with us. Your organization, Partners for Sacred Places, is a nonprofit that's dedicated to “sound stewardship and active community use of older sacred places across America.” Tell us what that means. If a community has an empty church and they come to you, what can you help them do?
BOB JAEGER
We're really the only national nonprofit that focuses on helping both the congregation and the larger community keep these buildings healthy and active and useful, both for the congregation and for the neighborhood or community. But, of course, if a congregation is compelled to leave or is too small to maintain the building, then a new use needs to be found. So, one of the key things we do is try to get the community engaged. How can we help a congregation assemble some advisors from government philanthropy, the arts, social services, neighborhood groups to come and get to know them, see the building and begin to help them think about, “Well, how do we use that old Sunday school wing? How do we use the parish hall that's not used much anymore.” It’s really more about how can this place that served our neighborhood for 100 years or more, how can it continue to play that kind of community role?
JESSIE BEERS-ALTMAN
What kinds of creative ways are folks repurposing closed or abandoned churches?
BOB JAEGER
Most reuses have been religious reuses. As neighborhoods change, it’s gone from Episcopal to Baptist or from Methodist to Pentecostal. But I think it's true that a higher percentage now are becoming something else. And one of the big issues of the day is, can we encourage sacred places to have a civic purpose but not destroy the beauty and the character of that building? So, for example, many of these buildings have become public places. They’ve become libraries, they’ve become performance places, they’ve become city halls. So instead of gathering for worship, you're gathering for music or to hear a lecture or for a public meeting. And that is one of the ideal reuses that we see.
JESSIE BEERS-ALTMAN
What are some of the obstacles specific to repurposing churches?
BOB JAEGER
That's a really good question because it varies by space. So for example, Catholic schools can easily be converted to housing because it's a series of classrooms and some larger spaces. Those are more easily repurposed. I think the sanctuaries are the most challenging, because they're big, gorgeous, high spaces. No one wants to see those spaces stripped of all their beauty. And yet only some new purposes will permit that all to stay. So if the church becomes a concert hall, you can pretty much leave it as is. But if you're getting into things like housing, and need to create multiple units within a large space, then that's really difficult to do without destroying much of the historic fabric.
JESSIE BEERS-ALTMAN
An interesting statistic that you shared with me is that about 90% of people who walk through the doors of a church are not actually members of that church's congregation. Can you elaborate that?
BOB JAEGER
I'm glad you cited the research because it's enormously important. We've done two rounds of research with the University of Pennsylvania about how sacred places are shared and used. And we learned, for example, that the vast majority of those who benefit from programs housed in these buildings are not members. I’ll often say, you know, when you drive by or walk by a church and you look at that sign, well, what does that sign say? The sign gives you the name of the church when it was built, maybe the maybe the title of the sermon. But it doesn't tell you anything about what happens in that place during the week. It doesn't explain that this is a place that serves kids and the hungry and all these populations that really could use some help. So this is hugely important because it can help the public understand that there's so much else going on. And if we want to encourage the larger community to join together to preserve these buildings and help them stay healthy, they need to see them as civic assets.
JESSIE BEERS-ALTMAN
Many studies actually have shown that churches are closing at increasing rates. And so I'm curious if you have anything to say about that. Why do you think that is?
BOB JAEGER
The average congregation has 65 people coming to worship on a Sunday. And that's half of what it was 20 years ago. So, the numbers are changing fast, and that means that a lot of these smaller congregations are ultimately closing. That doesn't mean they have to close, but they do need to tell their stories better. If we're Presbyterian and you're Baptist, why should you care about us? And it may be partly who we serve. It may be partly the beauty of our building. It may be partly that we've been here serving the community for a hundred years. But you need to articulate that to your community, and congregations often are not doing that until they're prompted. So that's one of our jobs is to say to congregations, “Hey, you have an amazing story to tell. Can we help you tell that story in a new way?”
JESSIE BEERS-ALTMAN
Is the country becoming more secular? As younger generations are aging into churchgoing populations, is that a factor, would you say?
BOB JAEGER
Fewer people are involved in a formal congregation or faith community, but they may still be spiritual. So, invite people in to help you serve food or invite people to serve as ushers when you have a concert. Or invite them to be advisors. They may never worship with you. You know, they just don't go to church anymore. But they still care about the spiritual and civic purpose of these places.
JESSIE BEERS-ALTMAN
What do you predict in terms of churches and closures over the next 10 or 20 years?
BOB JAEGER
A lot of leaders are waking up to what we call “transitioning.” Congregations are really transitioning from what they were in their heyday into something different. And I think using that term transitioning is helpful because it names it saying, all right, let's take charge of this. Let's recognize it. Too often congregations have been kind of floating along for a long time, and I think it's important for them to recognize what they're going through and to work with nonprofits like Partners to engage our community and to take charge of this. And say, well, we can manage this building differently. We can fund it differently. We can serve people in new ways and really be healthy. Smaller, but healthy.
JESSIE BEERS-ALTMAN
How can folks be proactive about saving sacred places in their communities and perhaps finding a way to give these kinds of structures new lives?
BOB JAEGER
It's incumbent on both the congregation and the neighbor to reach out to each other. So I would encourage you to go and knock on the door and introduce yourself. Congregations are, I think, underappreciated. And we don't understand their value and their role. And that's why I think it's an important moment for America. If we if we don't do new things, a lot of these places will slip away. And, you know, we're kind of the canary in the coal mine saying, “Hey, this is something that's serious and widespread.” So what impact will that have on our quality of life? Do we want our neighborhoods to be devoid of these places? And of course, we don't. But I think we need to sit up and take notice and be more active.
JESSIE BEERS-ALTMAN
Bob Jaeger, thanks so much for talking with us today. I really appreciate you taking the time.
BOB JAEGER
Thank you. It's been a pleasure.